tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15843479.post7601364861411783144..comments2023-09-11T01:59:23.810-07:00Comments on Sierra Highlands: On LeisureWillahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17374272000644968446noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15843479.post-69892315780562720772012-08-16T07:23:19.355-07:002012-08-16T07:23:19.355-07:00I am a random Norwegian who found this through Goo...I am a random Norwegian who found this through Google.<br /><br />This was really helpful reading. Thank you very much!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15843479.post-30600827432102841792007-05-09T06:12:00.000-07:002007-05-09T06:12:00.000-07:00Mortimer Adler puts it this way:Rest, in the sense...<I>Mortimer Adler puts it this way:<BR/><BR/>Rest, in the sense of contemplation, is the very opposite of the activities subsumed under all the other categories. </I><BR/><BR/>We were taught at our Franciscan meeting that when Adam was put to sleep or when St. Joseph spoke to an angel in his sleep, in these biblical references, sleep didn't mean snoring-away-unconscious rather contemplation.Mary Vitamin (Helen)https://www.blogger.com/profile/03962565719382449057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15843479.post-44807514433455745802007-05-09T05:12:00.000-07:002007-05-09T05:12:00.000-07:00WillaThank youI think your comments are worth anot...Willa<BR/>Thank you<BR/>I think your comments are worth another post!<BR/>I think it would be very helpful if you continued to blog this topic.Mary Vitamin (Helen)https://www.blogger.com/profile/03962565719382449057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15843479.post-84136032620757009052007-05-06T18:19:00.000-07:002007-05-06T18:19:00.000-07:00Oh, Willa, I don't have time now but I can hardly ...Oh, Willa, I don't have time now but I can hardly wait to read all of these links.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02413838626377092356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15843479.post-75426487957289338492007-05-06T10:32:00.000-07:002007-05-06T10:32:00.000-07:00So yes, I think our culture has moved away from Be...So yes, I think our culture has moved away from Benedict's understanding of what life was about. Partly because of the Marxist concept of "man as worker" and society as essentially about economics. And partly because of a sort of Puritan underpinning of our society. <BR/><BR/>Pieper says:<BR/><BR/><I>"Man seems to mistrust everything that is effortless; he can only enjoy, with a good conscience, what he has acquired wilh toil and trouble; he refuses to have anything as a gift." </I><BR/><BR/>It occurs to me that even the Benedictine concept of "work" is very different from the modern industrial concept. Productivity seems to be more of a byproduct to a Benedictine when thinking of "labor". I like Lissla's example of the quilting bee vs the factory, or say, perhaps, the sweatshop. Work to a Benedictine isn't a matter of maximized efficiency but of diligence and human dignity and the process of sanctification. (this is how I understand it, anyway)Willahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17374272000644968446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15843479.post-13713620107157603372007-05-06T10:26:00.000-07:002007-05-06T10:26:00.000-07:00Helen,The short answer is that the Benedictine way...Helen,<BR/>The short answer is that the Benedictine way of life was all about leisure. I know this seems extremely strange to our modern sensibility. But prayer is of the essence of leisure -- which means, if you look at the Aquinas quotes, contemplation. <BR/><BR/>Mortimer Adler puts it this way:<BR/><BR/><I>Rest, in the sense of contemplation, is the very opposite of the activities subsumed under all the other categories. All of them have some practical purpose in this life. Rest lifts us above and out of the exigencies of practical involvement of every kind.<BR/>The Orthodox Jew and the Benedictine monk fill much of their free time with rest. They lead three-part lives, constituted by sleep, work, and rest. The motto of the Benedictine Order is ora et labora (prayer and work). </I><BR/><BR/>I will try to write out a longer answer sometime. But are you with me so far? I know it sounds really strange. But think of Sunday, Sabbath. Our lives are completed in rest, in contemplation, not in labor. Labor is a necessary part of our lot as the consequence of the fall, but it is not the sum total of our lives.Willahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17374272000644968446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15843479.post-3239499069315814932007-05-05T17:13:00.000-07:002007-05-05T17:13:00.000-07:00Now I have another question on leisure. Why do you...Now I have another question on leisure. Why do you think St. Benedict's rule is simply "Prayer and Work" with no mention of leisure? Was leisure assumed and taken for granted?<BR/><BR/>If it was taken for granted, our culture has moved away from St. Benedict's paradigm in more ways than one!Mary Vitamin (Helen)https://www.blogger.com/profile/03962565719382449057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15843479.post-51420417134454749572007-05-05T16:38:00.000-07:002007-05-05T16:38:00.000-07:00Thanks Willa!This is excellent.Thanks Willa!<BR/>This is excellent.Mary Vitamin (Helen)https://www.blogger.com/profile/03962565719382449057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15843479.post-37185310176872401442007-05-05T09:36:00.000-07:002007-05-05T09:36:00.000-07:00Yes, it is. I loved that book (some friends gave i...Yes, it is. I loved that book (some friends gave it to us for Christmas a couple of years ago), but a lot of it went over my head. I should re-read it.<BR/><BR/>Progress by necessity implies a goal. It's not philosophically intransitive, a thing-in-itself. Everything really does come down to ordinancy, the right ordering of everything towards its proper end.lissla lissarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05354424704358588553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15843479.post-72026844996339279212007-05-05T08:43:00.000-07:002007-05-05T08:43:00.000-07:00So pleased to meet you, Lissla. I will look for t...So pleased to meet you, Lissla. I will look for the book you mentioned; it sounds interesting. <BR/><BR/>"efficiency is fine if it's human efficiency, not efficiency modeled on a mechanistic, product-driven understanding of life. Contrast the efficiency of a quilting party with a modern sewing factory"<BR/><BR/>This is exactly it. Efficiency is a word, like progress, that only has meaning in relation to what it is for. <BR/><BR/>ARistotle said: "We are unleisurely in order to have leisure."<BR/><BR/>Thus, even industrial efficiency is not a bad thing in itself. It could be a good thing if considered as giving more freedom from constant toil to more people. That is, if the means aren't made into the end.<BR/><BR/>It's when life is considered to be all ABOUT work, and leisure gets down-graded to necessary recreation in order to work again, or to idleness, that Pieper would argue that we've lost a proper sense of what it means to be a human being. <BR/><BR/>His book is complex and I don't claim to understand everything he says but that's the basic idea that I do grasp.Willahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17374272000644968446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15843479.post-4186782493986324642007-05-05T05:49:00.000-07:002007-05-05T05:49:00.000-07:00Of course- efficiency is fine if it's human effici...Of course- efficiency is fine if it's human efficiency, not efficiency modeled on a mechanistic, product-driven understanding of life. Contrast the efficiency of a quilting party with a modern sewing factory. Have you read Better OFf, by Eric Brende? It's only tangentally related, but he writes strongly against a mechanistic, inhuman criteria for success. He's an MIT student who spent a year in a quasi-Amish community to investigate whether most of our gadgets make life easier or more difficult.<BR/><BR/>I haven't intruduced myself- I know your daughter from the Sense and Sensibility fora, and I wandered here through her links. It's a delight to read your blog.lissla lissarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05354424704358588553noreply@blogger.com